Unpopular opinions

I'd peg it as:
1&2
3, 4, 5, 6, 7
8&9

3 is the gen that broke tradebacks, introduced IVs, natures, double battles, basically reprogrammed everything from the ground up...just a huge shift in everything. I don't think you can talk about Pokemon over time without putting a clean break between 2 and 3.

And with that as the level of break we're talking about between eras, that makes 3-7 into one "era", with 1&2 as the "early-installment weirdness" options and 8&9 as the "reinvent the franchise" latecomers(there is an argument for 7 as a bridge). I don't think Hidden Abilities, team preview, or Megas are enough to define a major shift in design philosophy. The losing the grid in 6 was a big deal but not all that impactful, no actual gyms in Alola was a bold(but one-off) move, and Lets Go PE still produces debates about how to define a generation, but...I think the Switch swap is where we put the breakpoint, and that's officially Gen 8.
 

Kin+ak (✧∇✧)

I COULD BE BANNED!
Bug Type pokemon are the best. I don't care that their stats suck, they are silly and I love them <3
Pokemon X and Y games were honestly mid, but the anime for X and Y was fire.
The green shinies are kinda cool actually!
Shinies in general are overrated
Pokemon GO! is boring
Generations 3, 5, and 7 are the best
Pixel sprites are better than 3d models or vector art in the main games....
There should be more games with Pokemon contests! I love battling but I think the performance part of pokemon is really interesting and fun!
Hello Entomaniac cubee, but hell what Is that "shinies are overrated"?! Just because bug Type pokemon have bad shinies that all shinies are overrated! Look at fighting types such as gallade, broloom, virizion, heracross! obviously, Shiny dustox Is such An horrible one I release If I find one, but then I have a theory that explains such bad shinies nowadays:
Massive hunting. See, in legends arceus, shinies would make a noise and a visual effect While appearing, making them very obvious, and they'd be caught till none left. Except these rare shinies in the game... That didn't made noise or sparkles. yes indeed, some shinies (I Don't know the odds) wouldnt make noise when they spawn. Never seen one? It's because It didn't attract your attention. Because shinies usually make noise and visual signal, If none are to be seen, then you Don't pay attention to It. But indeed There are shinies that Don't make sparkles. That was the case of my shiny yanma, I was exploring crimson mirelands and basically faced a shiny yanma looking at me. Except this one was blue. If I didn't turn back, I wouldve 100% missed It. another time was in a massive mass outbreak of clefairy where basicaly a shiny fled and I noticed Too late because of the silence. Then It moves us to the later games, where the 3D textures make It Even more difficult to see almost invisible shinies, the thing Is, what If the species evolved to be less dazzling? Sparkling shinies we're extinct because of overhunting. Overhunting in hisui may explain why only masuda Is boosted by the charm, and why the biggest boost lacks worth. Then There Is the textures that make shinies more difficult. would It be because of adaptation to massive hunting? Because of the multiplication of hunters, Did shinies voluntarily looked more like the original to distract hunters? Possible. Now, what's your opinion on this?
 
Since we're typing big long barely coherent walls of text about shiny Pokemon anyways, spitballing a (probably unpopular) idea I had regarding shiny Pokemon...


So as pretty much everyone on this forum is aware, right now Pokemon have a single alternate color palette that is applied when the Pokemon is shiny. In many cases, this alternate palette is a pretty drastic change, however in some cases...

... not so much.

Even as far as shinies that do get a drastic recolor go, there are undoubtedly a lot of people who don't like the color palette of some of their favorite shinies and wish they got different alternate colors.

The idea I have is to change from using a single alternate palette for shinies to a randomly generated palette, with some checks in place to prevent that palette from being too similar to the base color, and possibly to prevent it from being too close to pure black/white.

The way we do this is to split each Pokemon's model in to regions and then apply a color mask to that region. This is derived from another game; Ark: Survival Evolved. Let's take a look at a creature from Ark.

This is a screenshot of a wild Anklyosaurus in Ark that I shamelessly stole from Google because I don't currently have the game installed on this PC. Not all wild Anklyosaurus in Ark will look exactly like this one; in fact, most of them will not. Creatures in Ark will rarely have exactly the same color palette, because Ark uses a system similar to the one I'm proposing to generate their color palettes.

First, the model of the creature (or Pokemon) in question will be divided into several regions. Let's use Ark's Anklyosaurus to visualize what this looks like; conveniently for me, the Ark: SE wiki already does this by mapping out the different color regions of each creature. Here are some images that highlight the different color regions of an Anklyosaurus in red while the rest of the body is white.

This is essentially exactly what we'd do for Pokemon. Each Pokemon's model would be divided into different regions. Let's take Charizard as an example. Charizard's base body (the medium orange parts), undersides (the light orange parts), wing membranes, and possibly even flames could all be different color regions.

A greyscaled base texture would be made for each region. After that, we'd use color masks to tint that greyscaled texture to be a different color. For normal Pokemon, we'd use masks that replicate their original colors. However, for shiny Pokemon, we get to have a little more fun. For shiny Pokemon, we pick a random color mask to apply to each region, resulting in an almost infinite number of combinations.

Without any checks at all, this has the potential to result in color palettes that are nearly or exactly the same as the base palette, which I think most people would agree is undesirable. That's one of the problems this system aims to solve, after all. While the odds would be fairly low, and while no Pokemon would be guaranteed to have a shiny palette too close to its base color (unlike the aforementioned Articuno, among others, who always have underwhelming palettes), it should be fairly simple to prevent this from ever being a concern.

The way I personally would accomplish this is to use RGB values for the color masks. A random set of RGB values would be generated for each color. These values would then be checked against the default values for that region on that Pokemon (I.E. the color it would be on a non-shiny Pokemon). If the total deviance between the two set of values is too small, the color would be rerolled, wash, rinse, and repeat until a suitable color is rolled.

This should result in a randomized shiny palette that is always drastically different than the default palette. On a case-to-case basis, some regions could be exempt from having their colors randomized (Arceus's mother alien-esque ring, for example, is the same color whether it's shiny or not, so that region could always be the same color with the new system as well). We may also wish to exclude colors that are too close to pure white or pure black, as that could potentially result in texturing being washed out, but this may not be as much of a concern as in a game like Ark as honestly Pokemon textures barely have any texturing to them to begin with. Most Pokemon are textured with flat colors with a bit of shading.

This system would result in an incredibly huge number of possible shiny palettes for each Pokemon. This would bring unique value to each shiny, something that shiny Pokemon in general have lost over the generations. If you manage to get a shiny with a particularly desirable color palette, you have a lot more bargaining power to leverage when trying to trade that shiny than if it was exactly the same as every other shiny of its species. It also eliminates "bad" shinies as a concept. Pokemon whose shiny palettes are currently too close to their normal palettes, or Pokemon with shiny palettes that are generally considered unappealing, would have the same chance of generating an interesting or desirable color palette as any other Pokemon.

There are a few downsides that I can see. For one thing, I think ironically many shiny hunters would be against this system. As it currently stands, once you obtain a shiny Pokemon of a certain species, you're pretty much done with that species unless you wish to obtain multiple for trading or vanity. All shiny Pokemon of the same species have essentially the same value, disregarding IVs and natures and other competitive aspects (which you now have basically complete control over anyways with bottle caps, mints, and ability capsules/patches). With the new system, there's a certain completionist itch that might not get scratched when you obtain a shiny as a shiny hunter. You could, after all, always get another shiny with a different palette.

Another downside is that there are a lot of people who like certain shiny palettes the way they are, and with the new system you would be far less likely to get that exact palette. There are a few ways we can work around this. One possibility is that, when transferring a Pokemon from an older game to the game this hypothetical change is introduced in, you could be given the option to either keep the Pokemon's palette the same as its original shiny palette, or give it a new, randomized palette like a shiny obtained in that game would have. This would let you keep your cherished shinies that you've spent so much time hunting or breeding in previous games the same without risking rolling the dice and getting a shiny palette that you may not like.

Another possibility is again inspired by Ark. In Ark, one of the chief ways to get color palettes that don't naturally spawn is through breeding creatures, which has a random chance to induce a mutation that changes one of its regions' colors. In Pokemon I have a somewhat thematically similar idea; maybe when breeding shiny Pokemon, if a shiny offspring is produced, it will inherit one of the colors of its shiny parent(s). This would allow some degree of selective pressure over the color of a bred shiny Pokemon, albeit through a fairly long process that requires one to obtain parents with the desired colors and then breed a shiny offspring from said parents.

All in all I think there's some details that could definitely be ironed out, but I really like this idea on a conceptual level and would love to see something similar implemented in a future game.
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
is a Community Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributor
(Probably be easier if I went backwards than trying to catch up where I last left off...)

Because of the multiplication of hunters, Did shinies voluntarily looked more like the original to distract hunters? Possible. Now, what's your opinion on this?
I think you're overthinking things. Especially since newer gens have more distinct Shinies than previous gens. The reason earlier gens had a lot of lackluster Shinies is likely due to 2 reasons:

  1. They were more Pokemon per gen thus more Pokemon that need Shinies thus the likelihood these being just a few shades off the basic.

  2. It's believed the ways a lot of Shnnies were made was engineered palette swaps. Some Pokemon had their Shinies specifically tailored, but it seems most others just had a program which shifted some values over and they called it a day. Sometimes this resulted in a distinct Shiny, sometimes it meant the Shiny was just a lighter/darker shade of their base color. It could also be why a lot of Pokemon of the same base color have Shiny of the same color, like blue Pokemon turning a purplish pink or a lot of purple Pokemon turn blue or green.

imo, if you are to introduce a new rare form, it should be separate from current shiny methods. If it really is albino/melanistic, make an albino/melan charm, if its a new shiny form make an alternative shiny charm or whatever.
Speaking of "rarer than shinies"

I hate the fact that mark hunting never became that popular, pokemon titles are really fun
I'm not. Not because titles aren't fun, but because it's more RNG BS.

We already have Shinies (and before SV, Pokerus), we don't need more "hey this random Pokemon you caught has a secret unique feature". Why? Why does 1 out of 50 Pokemon have a chance to have a certain Weather Mark? It's not enough I caught the Pokemon in the weather condition? It's not enough I caught the Pokemon at a certain time of day for a Time Mark? That I fished a Pokemon to get the Fishing Mark? What makes the Pokemon which gets the Mark so special from the dozen of other Pokemon which don't?

Or how about the Personality Marks. So they're Natures without any benefits besides a funny title. I guess at the very least I can see why one Pokemon would have it and a dozen other doesn't... but then again outside the Title it's not like there's anything different about it.

The one which gets me is the Uncommon and Rare Mark. These have to be the two most insulting ones. Uncommon Mark feels like the participation award of Marks, it's a "here's a mark for no reason!". Yeah? am I supposed to be amazed a Pokemon has this Mark? And the Rare Mark... what's so rare about the Pokemon with this Mark? "Well it has this Mark!". What else. "Well, um, nothing really". So it might as well be the Uncommon Mark for all the difference that it makes.

Going back to my second sentence, Title are a fun idea. But I feel for the most part they should have been made a feature that is earned and not locked behind RNG BS. Have their be a NPC called the "Mark Maker" or "Title Giver" or whatever and they'll give your Pokemon Marks/Titles if they can complete certain tasks. Like for a Weather Mark the Pokemon either needs to have battled 50 opponents in said Weather or has an Ability which involves a certain weather condition. To get a Personality Mark it either needs to do something which relates to that Personality OR have a certain Nature or IV Characteristic. I'm glad SV has a few Marks like this, but ALL Marks should have been like this. If they were, maybe they would be a bit more popular as it would actually give something players to do with many of the Pokemon in their Box.

BTW, I have similar thoughts when GF had the audacity to make a rarer "Shiny" variant. F*** NO, at least not as an RNG thing. BUT maybe as a feature where you can change a Shiny's Pokemon sparkle to be something more "fitting" by completing a task? Sure, would be like Gen IV's Ball Capsules... Or, you know, just bring that idea back and keep it and expand upon every gen instead of trying to reinvent the wheel every gen...

This is just my guess, but I imagine the desire largely comes from people who feel like Shinies have become too common or easily obtained in recent generations, and now want something more elusive to hunt or brag about.

I think that's one of those things that people love in fangames or similar, but specifically because it's not going to be a thing in any "mainline" titles and probably not be a thing in spinoffs. A hack* having you playthrough as a Magma Grunt/Silver/N/etc could be really interesting, and having an actual char for the NPCs to interact with would be nice.
As someone whose only knowledge of Gen 5 is second hand, Team Plasma seems like the one team actually malicious team (as in not anything from Team Skull onward) where having the player be a (former?) grunt would actually work really well. Team Rocket was the mafia, Team Aqua and Magma were environmental terrorists, Team Galactic was like a doomsday cult or something, and Team Flare were fascists, but Team Plasma had a benevolent front so convincing that half the grunts genuinely believed in it and continued to pursue that goal even after Ghetsis fell in BW1. Having the player be a member of Old Team Plasma circa BW2 doesn't seem that unworkable.
This is actually the basis of one of my personal projects/thought experiments. I've only focused on the core series teams, but it's been fun thinking of scenarios. I won't post my whole ideas (as most of them are unfinished anyway), but I'll give the gist (and put them in spoiler boxes for those who don't care):

So the series name is "Pokemon Syndicates"; a nice catchy name.

Instead of the player being a self-insert, I felt for a series like this its better to have an actual character you're playing as. The issue with a game where you're part of the antagonist team is that the antagonist team will eventually lose and even disband. While a self-insert isn't impossible in that scenario, having an actual character who can go through a planned growth and story arc would better help fit this into canon while still showing off what the team was about (it's also easier to have said character to join the team as they'd have their own goals the player doesn't need to have, at most the player just needs to understand the character's motives).

Also because of this, the gameplay is a bit different. It's more akin to say the Pokemon Colosseum games than a normal Pokemon adventure. The big difference is that, since most of the game you're working in an organization, the gameplay is mission-based and you're accomplishing a goal before heading back to base. When it comes to Pokemon, you start with a Starter and most of your other Pokemon would be rentals from the organization's Pokemon collection (and as you increase in rank within the organization the more Pokemon you'll get access to). There will likely be points you can catch Pokemon either to add to the organization's collection or keep for yourself, but those opportunities will not be often. The appeal of the series would be seeing not only how the organization operates from the inside (getting to explore the HQ & other bases, talking with other members, seeing what missions that team has members doing & how people react to the villain team, etc.) but also how things change overtime. We see the organization before the core games take place (not the creation of the team, it's well established by the time the player character joins it), how the mood changes when its the time of the core games (the big plan is finally happening, there's rumors of a trainer thwarting the team's plans, the personalities of the bosses & admins start shifting, etc.), and finally what happens after the climax (notably to the player character and the other members we got to know along the way).

Pokemon Syndicates - Rocket: Focusing on Team Rocket, the story expands across Kanto & Johto and the stories of Gen I & II. MC is an older teen boy named Jett, he lived in the Goldenrod ghetto his whole life and owns a Houndour. One day, after chasing and beating down a group of hoodlums who stole Hondour's Poke Ball, he's approached by a Team Rocket Recruiter who's impressed by his hustle and invites him to join Team Rocket; promising money, companionship, and a purpose. He works for Team Rocket and works up the ranks but never reaches Admin; slowly over the first-third of the game he grows disillusioned with Team Rocket and their increasingly horrific acts and runs away to the Sevii Islands (just before Giovanni goes to face the Gen I protag in his Gym). The second-third of the game takes place over the 3 year period between Gen I & II, Jett uncovering a plan to revive Team Rocket. During this time he's discovered by Pokemon League Investigators (maybe even Lance) and agrees to go undercover in this "Neo" Team Rocket to stop their plans as a form of redemption. This makes up the final-third of the game where his missions are split between Neo Team Rocket & the Pokemon League.

PS - Advance: Focusing on Team Aqua & Team Magma, Hoenn, & RSE; Since there's two teams the codename is "Advance" as Gen III was often referred to as the "Advance" generation. There are two MCs this time, two friends: Shaun, an older teen boy with a Trapinch, and Raine, an older teen girl with a Horsea. Shaun & Raine are junior environmental scientists working at a lab monitoring habitat changes under a highly respect mentor. Then one day the lab blows up. The friends are split during the explosion and each find the dead body of their mentor at different times. While grieving, each one is approached by one of the teams: Shaun my Maxie & Team Magma, Raine by Archie & Team Aqua. They're told that the other team caused the explosion while they tried to stop it, looking for some data. As it turns out both Shaun and Raine have a copy of the data, and are invited to join the team that approached them to get revenge and prevent a geological disaster. You freely switch between Shaun and Raine doing missions for their respective team. Early on both discover their friend had joined the other team, and at first angry at the perceived betrayal, eventually both question if there's more going on than they're being told and start investigating the secrets of their team, even finding ways to work indirectly together.

PS - Galactic: Focusing on Team Galactic, Sinnoh, & DPPt. At the start of the game the MC, an older teen girl, wakes up in an abandoned cabin on Route 217 without any memory, only having a Bronzor in her possession. While exploring the cabin, a squad of Team Galactic grunts suddenly rush in with unconscious members and lies them down. Sneaking around, she discovers that she can astral project into people's minds and uses it to heal and awaken the unconscious Galactic grunts. She soon gets caught and brought back to the Galactic HQ, meeting with Cyrus who theorizes she must have looked into the eyes of Uxie; erasing her memories but gaining the ability explore the minds of others. Given the name Astral, she is recruited with the promise they'll try to get he memories back, using her powers to help further their plans. But as she works with Team Galactic, she starts to get visions of an upcoming apocalypses, especially when she's near Snowpoint Temple. And at the center of the apocalypse: Team Galactic; bringing her into conflict on helping them to regain her memories or trying to prevent the end of the world.

PS - Plasma: Focusing on Team Plasma, Unova, & all the Gen V games. MC is a young man named Gray who hates Pokemon as, when he was young, he lost his parents to a crazed Darmanitan that rampaged through his home town & burned down many houses, including his where his parents perished. One day a group called Team Plasma visits his home town preaching about Pokemon Liberation & that people & Pokemon should be separated. Interested, he talks with the Sage that came with Team Plasma, Rood, where they share their views: Team Plasma is interested in helping Pokemon that humans have mistreated, Gray sees Pokemon as dangerous monsters that have held back people's potential. Still, Gray says their goal of separating people & Pokemon align and he joins. Gray has a secret: Earlier in the day that the Darmanitan rampaged through his home town, he found a Keldeo trying to cut a rock in half. After helping it learn Sacred Sword, the other three Swords of Justice appear to take Keldeo back with them, though as thanks they gave Gray the ability to call upon wild Pokemon if he ever needed help (thus he doesn't need a Starter Pokemon)(he used this power during Darmanitan's rampage, Keldeo appearing to protect him from fires. But when it confronted the Darmanitan, instead of slaying it, it helped it escape, making Gray feel betrayed). While working with Team Plasma, the other Swords of Justice appear to Gray and he begrudgingly helps them. He gets spotted by Sage Rood doing this and brought to N and the other Sages. Finding Gray an interesting person with equal interesting views, assigns him into a special group called "Crusaders" who do Team Plasma's top secret missions, being also given a ceremonial sword (which later on the Swords of Justice empower to perform special tasks). But as Team Plasma's goals come to fruition, Gray starts to suspect there's more going on behind-the-scenes. He's summoned away by the Swords of Justice when BW's finale happens, and spends the next 2 years helping former Team Plasma members get their lives together (including Rood, some othe Sages, Anthea, and Concordia). Then one day Rood calls Gray and informs him a new Team Plasma is forming and he requests he goes undercover (along with another former Plasma grunt as his contact) to find out what they're planning, what happened to Ghetsis, and put a stop to it. And throughout the game Gray questions whether its right or wrong for people & Pokemon to be together and if his own views are as he believes them to be.

PS - Flare: Focusing on Team Flare, Kalos, & XY. MC is a young woman named Elita who owns a Shiny Eternal Flower Flabebe (a gift from her father, the flower was thought to be extinct but her father obtained a dried seed they were able to clone and have a Shiny Flabebe bond with). Elita is from a once rich and influential family until her father's business partners stole his business and framed him for a crime, taking away most of her family's wealth. On the grand opening of Lysandre's Cafe, feeling her family deserves to be represented, sneaks into the VIP section but get caught. She's brought to Lysandre who remember her father was an early investor of his company before being arrested. After hearing her side of the story and her viewpoint on people (she believes people are selfish by nature and those who aren't suffer; her father was kind and goodhearted which his selfish business partners took advantage of), he recruits her to join Team Flare. But as the story progresses she interacts with many people and hear their view on things which makes he start questioning if what Team Flare plans on doing is too extreme.

PS - Ultra: Focusing on Team Skull, Aether Foundation, Ultra Recon Squad, Alola, Ultra Space, and USUM; Since we're focusing on multiple teams I'm using the "Ultra" codename. There are four MCs. The first two are a young woman (& the older sister) named Lei who owns a Bounsweet and a older teen boy (& the younger brother) named Lua who owns a Cubone. Lei is an optimistic & overachiever former Island Challenge Champion and had just joined the Aether Foundation as a rookie member; but as she goes up the ranks she gets more embroiled with the darker side of Aether Foundation and has an inner conflict between her career and ethics. Meanwhile Lua is angsty and had just quit his Island Challenge to the disappointment of their parents, feeling disillusioned with Alola's traditions determining someone's worth; he decided to run away and ends up helping some Team Skull grunts escape who invite him to join Team Skull he finds kinship and starts improving himself, but begins to waver on Team Skull's delinquency. The other set of MCs are Chrysoph (older teen boy) & Sophyte (older teen girl), a pair of fraternal twins and Ultra Megalopians and both share a Poipole (and any other Pokemon they obtain); they're another Ultra Recon Squad duo who are given a secret mission to return Ultra Beasts back to their home worlds (often ending up working with Looker & Anabel). The story makes many twist & turns as you switch between Lei, Lua, and the twins who sometimes cross paths and takes them across the islands of Alola and all over Ultra Space.

PS - Max: Focusing on Macro Cosmos, Team Yell, Galar, & Gen VIII; Since we're once again focusing on multiple teams, went with the codename "Max" as it's the shared term between "Dynamax" and "Gigantamax" (& "Eternamax"). MC is an older teen named Howl, grew up on the streets of Wyndom who owns a Nickit. Wanting to join this year's Champion Cup, after failing to get a sponsorship from any of the local businesses, tries applying for one with Macro Cosmos. Meanwhile, Rose has learned the Spikemuth Gym Trainers, under the "guise" of Team Yell, are planning to cause trouble in this year's Champion Cup and make plans to stop them without drawing any attention. Howl takes the test to get the sponsorship but, due to his unruly attitude, is rejected. However this catches the eye of Rose who was observing the tests & asks to meet with Howl. Rose tells Howl that, though he can't be part of this year's Champion Cup, he has a much more important task for him: to go undercover as a member of Team Yell for Macro Cosmos (and to do some other tasks such as collecting Wishing Stars). Rose offers both payment and a guaranteed sponsorship for next year's Champion Cup, which Howl accepts. But as he journeys all across Galar he learns that there's more than fame and fortune at stake with the Champion Cup and Rose & Macro Cosmos may not have everyone's best interest in mind.

PS - Star: Focusing on Team Star, Paldea, & Gen IX. MC is an older teen girl named Estrella, she's introverted and has a stutter & owns a Varoom. She's accepted into the Paldea Academy a month after an incident caused all the previous staff to quit & many students to ditch their studies and form a group called Team Star. Due to her stutter and social awkwardness, Estrella is bullied, but one of those times she gets helped out by some Team Star members (but they get chased off by student council members who warn Estrella to stay away from them, they also blame her for causing trouble). When she again sees the Team Star members who helped her being confronted by a student council member, she defends them and defeats the council member who runs off saying they're going to report her. The Star members than invite her to their base to meet their Captain and to join Team Star. While Estrella still attends classes even after joining Team Star, when she participates in that year's Treasure Hunt she makes it her goal to recieve recognition of all the Star Captains. (Since the final SV DLC isn't out yet, this is still a WIP).


When a Pokémon story is so human-centric that it completely disregards the lore and capabilities of Pokémon heavily involved in the story, just to push further development for the human characters, it's a bad Pokémon story.

At first glance this might not be a hot take.

In practice this means DPPt and BW's stories, and even the climax of SM's story. Just the climax of that one. :psysly:
... How so? The discussion suddenly went into the Adventure/Special manga that I don't think we ever got back to this.

Like, I don't see how DPPt, BW, or the climax of SM's story disregarded the influence of the Legendary Pokemon.

DPPt: Cyrus was just about to use the power of Dialga and/or Palkia to redo the universe, and the only way he was stopped was by the Lake Guardians (DP)/Giratina (Platinum) intervening that broke the timespace dragons freed.

BW: The game does all it can to have the battle be the player's dragon vs N's dragon. Then once you defeat N, Ghetsis swoops in while you're weak and N's dragon (& other Pokemon) are unable to battle. Ghetsis team also seems specifically made to counter N's team, including whatever dragon he had (thus whatever dragon you have).

SM's Climax: Are you pointing out that Nebby didn't immediately unfuse Lusamine from Nihilego? My only guess is that Lusamine was receiving a power boost from each of her Pokemon that just made her too strong to be susceptible to unfusing. Once all her Pokemon was defeated the power they were sharing with her was gone and Nebby was able to swoop in. Not to mention they were surrounding by other Nihilego, Nebby may have very well been keeping an eye on those while the player battled Lusamine, waiting for its opening to free Lusamine and fly everyone out of Ultra Space.
 
BTW, I have similar thoughts when GF had the audacity to make a rarer "Shiny" variant. F*** NO, at least not as an RNG thing. BUT maybe as a feature where you can change a Shiny's Pokemon sparkle to be something more "fitting" by completing a task? Sure, would be like Gen IV's Ball Capsules... Or, you know, just bring that idea back and keep it and expand upon every gen instead of trying to reinvent the wheel every gen...
Hell yeah, I love Ball Capsules! This and special entry animations are awesome ways to make a caught Pokémon a little bit more special, like Marks or Ribbons.
 
Hell yeah, I love Ball Capsules! This and special entry animations are awesome ways to make a caught Pokémon a little bit more special, like Marks or Ribbons.
Yessss I love ball capsules!!!!
The way we do this is to split each Pokemon's model in to regions and then apply a color mask to that region. This is derived from another game; Ark: Survival Evolved.
I agree that would be much cooler! I have been meaning to play Ark for a while now I keep hearing a lot about it!
Possible. Now, what's your opinion on this?
I literally don't care lol my opinion on shinies is that they are overrated. They're kinda cool but personally I don't care for shiny hunting or see any value in shiny pokemon. I have never gone shiny hunting but I have caught some shinies even in older games before shinies started becoming more common. I just think they are neat and also that some people seem to get way too invested in them and I think it's a bit strange. No judgment though, just my opinion lol
 
I think Shinies are something that really just needed a couple of revisions to get right, but GF wasn't able to do that with wanting to maintain series continuity. Picture a world where there's a bunch of Stadium-style minor recolors generally available, similar to how different-sized mons are now, with a few additional recolors that are fairly uncommon(Melanistic, Albino, "naturally lime green"), and then an ultra-rare custom recolor done by the GF artists and designed to be worth searching for. It could be a really interesting collection system, where while you're looking for that shiny, you're at least occasionally finding something else that people might find cool.

But actually implementing that system when people already have a bunch of shinies they did 3,000 resets for would screw up something, so they've just made shiny hunting easier and easier while also spending less and less time designing the shinies.
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
is a Community Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributor
spitballing a (probably unpopular) idea I had regarding shiny Pokemon...
I think the ship has sailed on "Region Exclusive Shinies", the closest you'll get being a Shiny for newly introduced forms or a Regional Variant.

As my post quickly went over, I feel what we have for Shiny Pokemon is mostly what we'll ever need. I have a lot of thoughts so I'll try to go over them quickly and neatly as possible:

1. Pokemon Having More Shiny: Originally I was a hard no. But, after some thought, maybe it wouldn't hurt to give some Pokemon, especially those with a Shiny that's only a hue lighter/darker, a second Shiny at the very least a different color. Keep them at the same odds, it would just be a coin flip when you get the Shiny whether it'll be the new or old one (maybe they could make it so that, if you have the Shiny Charm and one of the Shiny colors, the next time you get a Shiny roll it's guaranteed to be the other Shiny). Even if it's not all Pokemon I could still make a big list of alt Shiny ideas that would satisfy the Shiny Hunter community.

2. New Challenges For Shiny Hunters: Speaking of whom, I get there's some channels whose thing is they Shiny Hunt. They're a very small majority, but they're a group of Pokemon fans nonetheless. While this post will have suggestions which would expand upon the alt Shiny possibilities, at the same time I feel they themselves should also be figuring out some alternative content. Like the one that immediately comes to mind would be Ribbon collecting (Contests, Battle Facilities, and all the other side features like Pokestar Studios). Another idea for a "quick" challenge comes from popular Youtuber Alpharad: To do a playthrough but only using Shiny Pokemon. That means soft-resetting the Starter until one comes out Shiny and if you need an HM user hope the first Shiny you get after running in circles for hours can learn it. That at the very least should be a few days of content; bonus points if its a Nuzlocke.

3. Alt Color Feature: If there were going to introduce more alt colors, I would want it to be a feature that you just need basic money for. No RNG, no needing to find a certain item; you just go up to the NPC, pick one of your Pokemon, pick an alternate color scheme, and hand over money to get your alt colored Pokemon. No muss, no fuss.
For anyone who 's thinking "But they wouldn't feel special", that's a "you" problem. For most everyone else they'd just be happy they could change the color of the Pokemon they want to use on their team to a color that's more appealing to them.
BTW, I'm NOT suggesting that all Pokemon should be available in every color under the rainbow. No, that would really make things pointless. This would be for any "logical" or "would be cool/cute/funny/neat" alt colors; like it having the color scheme or a prevo/evo/different form (for example, imagine the Mareep family swapping colors) or if its a Pokemon with two main colors and swapping them (popular example would be Absol).
And, to throw another bone to Shiny enthusiast, have Shiny Pokemon have their own alt colors (maybe ones mirroring the base color options; what's cooler than a Black Absol: a Red Absol, Shiny exclusive). That way, even if they caught a Shiny Pokemon, well they're going to need to keep hunting for multiples if they want to have one in each alt color variant; that should keep them busy.

Continuing my dive into older posts:

STARMOBILE DISCUSSION:
If they want to have Starmobile Revavroom, I think the easiest way to do it would move Filter to being a normal Ability and give it a new Signature Hidden Ability, for now we'll call it "Starmobile". A Revaroom with Starmobile will have a different model, one which has hubcaps covering its wheel with the Team Star logo. When it knows no Torque Moves, nothing about it changes the hubcaps are colored light gray like the metallic parts of it. If you check it's Movepool, you'll see that all five Torque Moves have been added to it (they'll disappear if you change Revaroom's Ability, a Revaroom with a Torque Move can't have its Ability changed, and finally Revaroom can only ever know one Torque Move at any time). When you teach it a Torque Move, it's Form will change along with it hubcap color, Type, and Ability:
TORQUE MOVE​
FORM NAME​
HUBCAP COLOR​
TYPE​
ABILITY​
Wicked Torque​
Segin​
Black​
Dark​
Intimidate​
Blazing Torque​
Schedar​
Orange​
Fire​
Speed Boost​
Noxious Torque​
Navi​
Purple​
Poison​
Toxic Debris​
Magical Torque​
Ruchbah​
Pink​
Fairy​
Misty Surge​
Combat Torque​
Caph​
Dark Red​
Fighting​
Stamina​

I wouldn't change any Stats, these changes are more than enough. At MOST maybe I'd add in a 6th form, one that's pure Steel-type, as it just feels odd to have one Form which is one of its Type but none for the other.

ETERNAMAX ETERNATUS:
As for that one, I'm fine leaving it as a Move Animation, mainly because we've moved on from Dynamax. Maybe if they ever have another Super Form mechanic which allows for reuse of the Gigantamax forms (though probably VERY shrunk down), maybe they can then have a weaker Eternamax Eternatus. Either you get the full size one for a single move, or a smaller version for the entire battle.

Shiny (Dustox) is unacceptable And should be changed the sooner the better
Hm, challenge accepted. You know, with Dustox having a counterpart in Beautifly, I wonder what they would look like if we swapped their colors:

AltShinyBeautDust.png

Yeah, I don't think these look that bad. I would have been a bit more fancier, but I figured at a proof-of-concept to just stick to simple palette swaps.

i know this, but that's exactly my point - it doesn't add anything to the in-game, and the lore is...? there isn't really an actual built lore about this (Nidorina & Nidoqueen being unable to breed) other than word of god, so it could be retconned.

then again i acknowledge it's a minor detail that most people don't remember one way or the other, axing incenses was an actual mechanic retcon
Just to note, the factoid that Nidorina and Nidoqueen can't breed was purposely done comes from a Japanese exclusive booklet that came out just before the Gen I games. Otherwise it's never mentioned in the games or any other official media. Is it silly? Yes. Should they just retcon it that Nidorina and Nidoqueen can breed? Yes. There's no reason not to, it only makes breeding them annoying.

I did not realize they axed Incenses, something which I'm in total agreement with.

Here's my unpopular opinion of the day: :berry-pots:the Berry Pots are a really awesome Key Item that should have appeared in more games and have zero business being only in HGSS, and the removal of the mechanic of growing Berries is one of GF's dumbest decisions ever.
Wouldn't mind just having a greenhouse or field location like in XY. Out of the way, can fly to it whenever I want, sure having to go back to knock out some Bug Pokemon was annoying but nothing too bothersome. Plus the idea of Berry Mutation was a fun mechanic as it meant you could get some later game Berries early on.

View attachment 564961
We need this death battle matchup, it would be sick, give me your thoughts on it, and who you think wins. I believe it would be Koraidon, ynow, the one who can split continental crust with a punch
Which franchise makes the most money (or which franchise do you like the best):

(After a lengthy battle of back-to-back blows)

Rathalos attempts to dive down on Koraidon but it nimbly dodges out of the way. Before Rathalos could fly back up Koraidon jumps on its back, climbs up to its neck, and puts it in a headlock. Koraidon then makes a summersaulting backflip taking Rathalos with it... DINOBIKER JUST SUPLEXED A RATHALOS! There's no getting up from that. Rathalos is down! Koraidon stands tall, shaking is arm in the air in celebration, before powering down to its Sprinting Build to look for its preferred prey: Sandwiches.

(After a lengthy battle of back-to-back blows)

Rathalos attempts to dive down on Koraidon but it nimbly dodges out of the way. Before Koraidon can get its bearings, Rathalos smacks Koraidon with its tail knocking it back. Rathalos gives out a deafening roar, further stunning the prone Koraidon. Koraidon opens its eyes only to see Rathalos's open jaws coming down onto its neck, a bone-breaking snap is heard as it crunches down. Koraidon closes its eyes for the last time as Rathalos enjoys a nice meal of a worthy foe.


Ultra Space's blue-skinned folks made me ask soooooooo many questions. To start with the basics:
  1. What is their culture, their society? How is life in these buildings you can't enter?
  2. How do they raise Pokémon?
  3. How did they discover Ultra Beasts, like the Cosmog line, or Necrozma?
  4. When did they first meet us, if ever?
  5. Do they regularly check alternate universes?
  6. Were they related biologically to humans? Can they mate humans?
In short, I would like to learn more about the Ultra Recon Squad, their society, and their history.
2. We know that Poipole is a native species which Ultra Megalopians use as a Starter.

4. Seems to be when they made contact with the Aether Foundation a short time before USUM.

6. It's implied humanoids are a common species throughout the Pokemon multiverse. Ultra Megalopians bluish skin, glowing yellow eyes, & neon-colored hair is likely an evolution adaptation to living in a world without light for what has to be at least a few hundred years, maybe a thousand or so. While I wouldn't say they have evolved enough to be a different species from Homo Sapien, they likely have changed enough to slip into a sub species, we'll call them "Homo Sapien Megalopoli". In theory they should have no issue interbreeding with humans from the "Main Pokemon World" (and any offspring should also in theory still be able to have children), but there's no guarantee (but I'm sure plenty of guys would be willing to volunteer with Soliera).
 
I'm not. Not because titles aren't fun, but because it's more RNG BS.
The gambling compels you :<



No, seriously
the fact that you can get them only through random chance it's the appeal for many people
is the reason why people shiny hunt
like opening random packs but not as ridiculously expensive
it's why people like random encounters

People want more RNG in their pokemon hunting 315111 not less! they want rares and secret rares
none of your mindless earning stuff, but true honest well deserved luck

remember kids: Win by Luck, it's the Pokemon way!

 

Samtendo09

Ability: Light Power
is a Pre-Contributor
I realized that Baby Pokémon, while for marketing first and foremost, didn’t do a lasting impression that cross-gen evolutions do, with only the occasional Riolu and Toxel for non-cross-gen Babies and Gen 3 also only gave two cross-gen Babies. This makes Gen 4 the only generation since Gen 2 where there are more than two cross-gen Baby Pokémon alongside a non-cross-gen Baby on Riolu. Only Pichu, Togepi, Riolu and Toxel are breakouts while most other ends up being overshadowed except those of already strong Pokémon.

After that, there were no more cross-gen babies (at least, for now), and that is despite the fact cross-gen evolutions as a concept makes a full return after disappearing in Gen 5, nearly replaced by Mega Evolution in Gen 6 and eventually complemented by Regional Forms in Gen 7 and 8 to allow a full return starting with Legends: Arceus. How could Baby Pokémon didn’t make a full return despite the potentials for cross-gen babies? A comment for this YouTube video helped me realize something;

“Personally my main complaint about baby Pokemon is that aside from the Hitmons and Elemental Punch Trio, they were a pretty bad choice of lineup to babify. Vulpix had explicit Pokedex entries about how the newborn has a single tail that gradually splits, Kangaskhan has a baby in its pouch from birth, Pikachu, Clefairy, and Jigglypuff were already sufficiently cutesy and I see the likes of Pichu, Igglybuff, and Azurill more as grotesque than adorable. Just give Mikon/Trifox the base stats Vulpix normally has and buff Vulpix and Ninetales appropriately and they'd actually be relevant without needing to steal Groudon's Ability.”

In other words, while Baby Pokémon is a neat concept, the likes of Pikachu, Clefairy, Jigglypuff and Marill already makes a great job for being small, somewhat weak critter that we would love to take care off, so an even weaker form is not only redundant, but also caused raising our companion more of a pain than it should. There’s also missed opportunities as far as the second Generation such as a Kangaskhan baby as it’s own, indepedant Pokémon that GF have yet to fix this issue.

Overall, I feel like it’s an unfocused concept that only solidifies at the fourth Generation before being dropped nearly altogether, only reappearing as Toxel in the eight Generation. While Baby Pokémon as a whole can still sell well for merchandising, I wonder how much more well received they would be if they focused on making already Pokémon available earlier by making Baby form for them in the first place.
 
While Baby Pokémon as a whole can still sell well for merchandising, I wonder how much more well received they would be if they focused on making already Pokémon available earlier by making Baby form for them in the first place.
I think that doing this would also require reexamining the evolution requirements for baby mons. The gen 4 baby mons were the closest to this concept, but it was still significantly more straightforward to drop Budew for a freshly-caught Roselia during my playthrough of BD.
 
I realized that Baby Pokémon, while for marketing first and foremost, didn’t do a lasting impression that cross-gen evolutions do, with only the occasional Riolu and Toxel for non-cross-gen Babies and Gen 3 also only gave two cross-gen Babies. This makes Gen 4 the only generation since Gen 2 where there are more than two cross-gen Baby Pokémon alongside a non-cross-gen Baby on Riolu. Only Pichu, Togepi, Riolu and Toxel are breakouts while most other ends up being overshadowed except those of already strong Pokémon.

After that, there were no more cross-gen babies (at least, for now), and that is despite the fact cross-gen evolutions as a concept makes a full return after disappearing in Gen 5, nearly replaced by Mega Evolution in Gen 6 and eventually complemented by Regional Forms in Gen 7 and 8 to allow a full return starting with Legends: Arceus. How could Baby Pokémon didn’t make a full return despite the potentials for cross-gen babies? A comment for this YouTube video helped me realize something;

“Personally my main complaint about baby Pokemon is that aside from the Hitmons and Elemental Punch Trio, they were a pretty bad choice of lineup to babify. Vulpix had explicit Pokedex entries about how the newborn has a single tail that gradually splits, Kangaskhan has a baby in its pouch from birth, Pikachu, Clefairy, and Jigglypuff were already sufficiently cutesy and I see the likes of Pichu, Igglybuff, and Azurill more as grotesque than adorable. Just give Mikon/Trifox the base stats Vulpix normally has and buff Vulpix and Ninetales appropriately and they'd actually be relevant without needing to steal Groudon's Ability.”

In other words, while Baby Pokémon is a neat concept, the likes of Pikachu, Clefairy, Jigglypuff and Marill already makes a great job for being small, somewhat weak critter that we would love to take care off, so an even weaker form is not only redundant, but also caused raising our companion more of a pain than it should. There’s also missed opportunities as far as the second Generation such as a Kangaskhan baby as it’s own, indepedant Pokémon that GF have yet to fix this issue.

Overall, I feel like it’s an unfocused concept that only solidifies at the fourth Generation before being dropped nearly altogether, only reappearing as Toxel in the eight Generation. While Baby Pokémon as a whole can still sell well for merchandising, I wonder how much more well received they would be if they focused on making already Pokémon available earlier by making Baby form for them in the first place.
To add onto this, I also think Baby Pokemon are just poorly used as a Gameplay mechanic. Theoretically the benefit of a Baby Pokemon being introduced later is that it gives a way to make a Line available earlier in the game: a good example of this is Budew in Gen 4 allowing the Roselia and Roserade endgoal without giving the strong-for-first-3-gyms Roselia too early, or it's a sort of Magikarp situation where they're weaker but reward you something strong if you raise them up (Riolu to Lucario in mid game). The problem there is most of the Baby Pokemon are for species that either don't take that long to be available anyway, or simply aren't that strong to be worth the babying (the latter especially with a lot of Gen 2's). Some get it like Smoochum, Elekid, and Magby, but others like Tyrogue are late comers anyway.

Also this is me being a stickler, but Toxel being a Baby Pokemon is dumb. It only fits the definition because it can't breed but nothing about its availability or strictly-Level-1 movepool feels like it fits the design purpose of a Baby Pokemon. It just seems like a basic stage weak Pokemon that they took the Egg Group off of because they took the "Baby" idea to a literal extreme.
 
Friendship evolution for baby Pokemon works thematically, but it punishes younger/less knowledgeable/more casual players who don't know the details of every evolution method. The reward for raising a baby Pokemon is maximised if you make sure to never let it faint and take advantage of friendship-boosting mechanics, but if you don't know about any of that then your baby Pokemon can easily fall behind the power curve and become even harder to level up without it fainting. In my first playthrough of Diamond at age 10, my Budew didn't evolve until Level 28 lmao.

It also creates a slightly awkward tension when the baby Pokemon has exclusive level-up moves. Friendship evolutions are generally framed as something you should try to achieve as quickly as possible (especially when the alternative is continuing to send out a baby to fight for you against increasingly powerful opponents) and the other mechanics of baby Pokemon feel like they're designed to make them seem 'incomplete' in a way that other pre-evolutions aren't, so delaying the evolution for a Pokemon like Riolu to get an exclusive high-level move feels a little weird. On the other hand, when 10yo me was still lugging a Budew around 12 levels after it learned its last move, it's hard not to feel like the game was telling me I was failing as a trainer.
 
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To add onto this, I also think Baby Pokemon are just poorly used as a Gameplay mechanic. Theoretically the benefit of a Baby Pokemon being introduced later is that it gives a way to make a Line available earlier in the game: a good example of this is Budew in Gen 4 allowing the Roselia and Roserade endgoal without giving the strong-for-first-3-gyms Roselia too early, or it's a sort of Magikarp situation where they're weaker but reward you something strong if you raise them up (Riolu to Lucario in mid game). The problem there is most of the Baby Pokemon are for species that either don't take that long to be available anyway, or simply aren't that strong to be worth the babying (the latter especially with a lot of Gen 2's). Some get it like Smoochum, Elekid, and Magby, but others like Tyrogue are late comers anyway.

Also this is me being a stickler, but Toxel being a Baby Pokemon is dumb. It only fits the definition because it can't breed but nothing about its availability or strictly-Level-1 movepool feels like it fits the design purpose of a Baby Pokemon. It just seems like a basic stage weak Pokemon that they took the Egg Group off of because they took the "Baby" idea to a literal extreme.
That would be because in the only official context where the term "Baby Pokémon" is used (the TCG) it isn't. Togepi and Riolu aren't either.

The fan usage of the term doesn't actually match up with the official usage. The fan usage is used to denote first stage Pokémon that can't breed, the official usage only applies it to first stage Pokémon that can't breed and were introduced after the Pokémon they evolve into.
 
That would be because in the only official context where the term "Baby Pokémon" is used (the TCG) it isn't. Togepi and Riolu aren't either.

The fan usage of the term doesn't actually match up with the official usage. The fan usage is used to denote first stage Pokémon that can't breed, the official usage only applies it to first stage Pokémon that can't breed and were introduced after the Pokémon they evolve into.
There have been multiple times where Togepi, Riolu, and Toxel were catagorized officially with the cross-gen pre-evolutions, most recently in the 1008 Encounters video where all three were shown alongside all of the cross-gen ones during the montage
 
The fan usage of the term doesn't actually match up with the official usage. The fan usage is used to denote first stage Pokémon that can't breed, the official usage only applies it to first stage Pokémon that can't breed and were introduced after the Pokémon they evolve into.
The “fan usage” of the term is just putting a name to an observable set of objective characteristics (a Pokémon that can 1) be produced through breeding, that 2) cannot itself breed, but 3) can evolve) that are set by the developers. In light of that, transplanting the term that the TCG used to refer to the exact same set of Pokémon when they were introduced in that medium is just the most sensible option.

If you introduce the further criterion of “4) must have been introduced in a generation after its root species,” you’re left to wonder why Togepi, Riolu, and Toxel are conspicuously the only remaining first-stage Pokémon that can’t breed.
 

QuentinQuonce

formerly green_typhlosion
To add onto this, I also think Baby Pokemon are just poorly used as a Gameplay mechanic. Theoretically the benefit of a Baby Pokemon being introduced later is that it gives a way to make a Line available earlier in the game: a good example of this is Budew in Gen 4 allowing the Roselia and Roserade endgoal without giving the strong-for-first-3-gyms Roselia too early, or it's a sort of Magikarp situation where they're weaker but reward you something strong if you raise them up (Riolu to Lucario in mid game). The problem there is most of the Baby Pokemon are for species that either don't take that long to be available anyway, or simply aren't that strong to be worth the babying (the latter especially with a lot of Gen 2's). Some get it like Smoochum, Elekid, and Magby, but others like Tyrogue are late comers anyway.

Also this is me being a stickler, but Toxel being a Baby Pokemon is dumb. It only fits the definition because it can't breed but nothing about its availability or strictly-Level-1 movepool feels like it fits the design purpose of a Baby Pokemon. It just seems like a basic stage weak Pokemon that they took the Egg Group off of because they took the "Baby" idea to a literal extreme.
I've said this before but the way X and Y handled baby Pokemon was a really good tweak to the format that shouldn't have been reverted. Because all Pokemon in the Undiscovered egg group have 3 perfect IVs when encountered*, it adds an element of strategy onto the decision to catch one vs catching an evolved form. In Reflection Cave you can catch both Mr Mime and Mime Jr: catching the former gives you a strong Pokemon right away while catching the latter means that there's more of a grind involved to raise it but it's highly likely to have much better stats in the end, making it a better long-term investment. It added an extra incentive to use babies when - outside of the instances where they have a special/desirable move you wouldn't get otherwise - it's typically not worth the effort raising one entails in a regular playthrough.


*yes I know this probably wasn't intentional, hence it being changed back in ORAS
 
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Idk if this is an unpopular or common opinion but I don't like Close Combat being distributed as a coverage move or widely distributed at all. CC just has the most minimal downside we've ever seen in-game, it's completely reliable with 100 accuracy, it doesn't lower your attack so its super spammable, and it has no recoil so there's no risk of KOing yourself mid-sweep. This is an incredible move but it isn't treated like one, nowadays it's treated as the primary Fighting STAB in the game with almost every Fighting type getting it and a bunch of other mons like Scizor and Cerluledge getting it as a coverage move. I think it should be treated more like Moonblast, which is a paticularly powerful move in its own right, but not every Fairy gets Moonblast and even fewer non-Fairies get it either, instead Dazzling Gleam is the most common coverage move. There are so many weaker moves that can fulfill the role of primary Fighting STAB like Brick Break, Cross Chop, or even Superpower, which is able to be just as strong as CC but with an actual downside to balance out the power. With how important a move's BP is in the damage calculation, a 120 BP should either have a real downside or limited distribution, yet CC has neither. Every other type's primary STAB moves are between 70-100 BP but the already good Fighting type gets 120, just weird to me.
 
Idk if this is an unpopular or common opinion but I don't like Close Combat being distributed as a coverage move or widely distributed at all. CC just has the most minimal downside we've ever seen in-game, it's completely reliable with 100 accuracy, it doesn't lower your attack so its super spammable, and it has no recoil so there's no risk of KOing yourself mid-sweep. This is an incredible move but it isn't treated like one, nowadays it's treated as the primary Fighting STAB in the game with almost every Fighting type getting it and a bunch of other mons like Scizor and Cerluledge getting it as a coverage move. I think it should be treated more like Moonblast, which is a paticularly powerful move in its own right, but not every Fairy gets Moonblast and even fewer non-Fairies get it either, instead Dazzling Gleam is the most common coverage move. There are so many weaker moves that can fulfill the role of primary Fighting STAB like Brick Break, Cross Chop, or even Superpower, which is able to be just as strong as CC but with an actual downside to balance out the power. With how important a move's BP is in the damage calculation, a 120 BP should either have a real downside or limited distribution, yet CC has neither. Every other type's primary STAB moves are between 70-100 BP but the already good Fighting type gets 120, just weird to me.
This posts makes me wander why the Fighting-type Stone Edge (Cross Chop) has so few distribution around actual Fighting mons, like only the Machop, Mankey, Makuhita, Croagunk and Riolu lines get the move and are Fighting, the rest are stuff like Obstagoon and Incineroar, like, they could have gave the move more variety
 
Close Combat talk
I looked up the list of Fighting-type moves, and man, I wish more mid-power moves other than Drain Punch and Brick Break got any spotlight. Hammer Arm, Low Sweep, Circle Throw, Final Gambit, Revenge, Storm Throw, Sky Uppercut, Rolling Kick, Wake-Up Slap... That's a lot of forgotten techniques for some reason. Even Cross Chop and Focus Punch are given less and less attention as time goes by.

I have to get this out of my chest: Sky Uppercut and Rolling Kick are pretty cool moves that I want to see more of. Flawed moves, sure, but Sky Uppercut has an uncommon side effect of hitting flying Pokémon and given to some Fighting-type Pokémon and the Gligar line (!) while Rolling Kick is a very rare move with a 30% chance of flinching, for some reason I thought it fits Marshadow well.:marshadow:
 
I looked up the list of Fighting-type moves, and man, I wish more mid-power moves other than Drain Punch and Brick Break got any spotlight. Hammer Arm, Low Sweep, Circle Throw, Final Gambit, Revenge, Storm Throw, Sky Uppercut, Rolling Kick, Wake-Up Slap... That's a lot of forgotten techniques for some reason. Even Cross Chop and Focus Punch are given less and less attention as time goes by.

I have to get this out of my chest: Sky Uppercut and Rolling Kick are pretty cool moves that I want to see more of. Flawed moves, sure, but Sky Uppercut has an uncommon side effect of hitting flying Pokémon and given to some Fighting-type Pokémon and the Gligar line (!) while Rolling Kick is a very rare move with a 30% chance of flinching, for some reason I thought it fits Marshadow well.:marshadow:
Sky Uppercut and Rolling Kick don't exist anymore and Rolling Kick was trash anyway.

Close Combat gets such wide distribution because of its lack of downside, the next strongest (physical) Fighting moves down without a drawback are Brick Break and Drain Punch at power 75. It's so widely distributed because Fighting doesn't have anything else above 80 bp without horrible drawbacks other than (High) Jump Kick. Asking why it's so widely distributed is like asking why Earthquake is so widely distributed.
 
Close Combat gets such wide distribution because of its lack of downside, the next strongest (physical) Fighting moves down without a drawback are Brick Break and Drain Punch at power 75. It's so widely distributed because Fighting doesn't have anything else above 80 bp without horrible drawbacks other than (High) Jump Kick. Asking why it's so widely distributed is like asking why Earthquake is so widely distributed.
I don't like this as an explanation for why everything gets CC now, because it implies that each type is somehow owed a generically strong, widely available move with minimal downside. Its distribution was decent without being excessive for the first few gens it existed, so it's not like its current ubiquity was baked into its original design.

Bringing up HJK is interesting, because everything that gets both prefers to use CC anyway; it's completely eclipsed every other physical Fighting move outside of incredibly niche combos like Contrary+Superpower. Earthquake is also too accessible imo, but I think the difference between 100 BP and 120 BP is pretty massive in practice, so it doesn't feel as overbearing.
Close Combat is also vague enough in its description that it can be applied to many different Pokemon. The common denominator, besides being a Fighting type, seems to be just fighting aggressively and fast.
I think the phrase "without guarding itself" is important in Close Combat's description (and should exclude some of the Pokemon that learn it now imo), but regardless, this is exactly why the distribution of moves needs to be about more than physical capability, even if some of the Pokemon who aren't given a move like Close Combat end up feeling like arbitrary exclusions. Since moves in Pokemon have the same stats no matter which species uses them, limiting their accessibility is one of the only tools available to make movesets feel unique.
 

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